Debian Bug report logs - #16970
dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adrian Bridgett <adrian.bridgett@poboxes.com>

To: submit@bugs.debian.org

Subject: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:32:30 +0000

Package: dpkg
Version: 1.4.0.19

Whilst packaging a new program (nighthawk), I deleted a conffile
  /var/lib/dpkg/nighthawk.scores

When I did a dpkg -i nighthawk.deb, the file was not replaced or mentioned -
as if it didn't even exist in the .deb. If a conffile is deleted, then dpkg
should just treat it as changed, but with a different message (and perhaps a
default of Y rather than N).

After a dpkg --purge nighthawk all was fine.

Adrian

email: adrian.bridgett@poboxes.com       | Debian Linux - www.debian.org
http://www.poboxes.com/adrian.bridgett   | Because bloated, unstable 
PGP key available on public key servers  | operating systems are from MS

Message #10 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Scott K. Ellis" <storm@gate.net>

To: adrian.bridgett@poboxes.com, 16970@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:33:45 -0500 (EST)

On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Adrian Bridgett wrote:

> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.4.0.19
> 
> Whilst packaging a new program (nighthawk), I deleted a conffile
>   /var/lib/dpkg/nighthawk.scores
> 
> When I did a dpkg -i nighthawk.deb, the file was not replaced or mentioned -
> as if it didn't even exist in the .deb. If a conffile is deleted, then dpkg
> should just treat it as changed, but with a different message (and perhaps a
> default of Y rather than N).
> 
> After a dpkg --purge nighthawk all was fine.

Dpkg is treating it as changed.  And since it only changed on your system,
and not in the upstream source, dpkg assumed that you knew what you were
doing and didn't prompt you.  This is a expected/documented feature of
dpkg, not a bug.  Dpkg assumes you're not stupid and that if you removed a
conffile, you knew what you were doing because of it.  It is certainly not
acceptable to default to replacing it, and I'd rather not even be asked.

Message #15 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Guy Maor <maor@ece.utexas.edu>

To: "Scott K. Ellis" <storm@gate.net>

Cc: 16970@bugs.debian.org, adrian.bridgett@poboxes.com

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: 11 Jan 1998 13:37:23 -0800

"Scott K. Ellis" <storm@gate.net> writes:

> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Adrian Bridgett wrote:
> > If a conffile is deleted, then dpkg
> > should just treat it as changed, but with a different message (and perhaps a
> > default of Y rather than N).
>
> Dpkg is treating it as changed.  And since it only changed on your system,
> and not in the upstream source, dpkg assumed that you knew what you were
> doing and didn't prompt you.

Actually even if it changes in the upstream source, dpkg will neither
replace it nor prompt you.  This is documented in Debian Packaging
9.1:

  However, note that dpkg will not replace a conffile that was removed
  by the user (or by a script). This is necessary because with some
  programs a missing file produces an effect hard or impossible to
  achieve in another way, so that a missing file needs to be kept that
  way if the user did it.


Guy

Message #20 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>

To: Guy Maor <maor@ece.utexas.edu>, 16970@bugs.debian.org

Cc: "Scott K. Ellis" <storm@gate.net>, adrian.bridgett@poboxes.com

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:10:17 -0500

Guy Maor wrote:
> Actually even if it changes in the upstream source, dpkg will neither
> replace it nor prompt you.  This is documented in Debian Packaging
> 9.1:
> 
>   However, note that dpkg will not replace a conffile that was removed
>   by the user (or by a script). This is necessary because with some
>   programs a missing file produces an effect hard or impossible to
>   achieve in another way, so that a missing file needs to be kept that
>   way if the user did it.

I can understand that as a rational for not replacing it, but why not
prompt?

-- 
see shy jo

Message #25 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Guy Maor <maor@ece.utexas.edu>

To: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>

Cc: 16970@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: 11 Jan 1998 16:40:11 -0800

Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net> writes:
> I can understand that as a rational for not replacing it, but why not
> prompt?

It doesn't prompt on the presumption that removing a config file is a
deliberate action.  The user doesn't want to be prompted each time the
upstream source changes; he just wants to run the program without any
config file.


Guy

Message #30 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Vila Doncel <sanvila@unex.es>

To: Guy Maor <maor@ece.utexas.edu>

Cc: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>, 16970@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:04:21 +0100 (MET)

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On 11 Jan 1998, Guy Maor wrote:

> Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net> writes:
> > I can understand that as a rational for not replacing it, but why not
> > prompt?
> 
> It doesn't prompt on the presumption that removing a config file is a
> deliberate action.  The user doesn't want to be prompted each time the
> upstream source changes; he just wants to run the program without any
> config file.

Ok, but the same thing could be said if the file is just modified:

"It doesn't prompt on the presumption that modifying a config file is a
deliberate action"

However, it prompts for modified files, but not for removed ones.

Why do we have different "presumptions"?

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Message #35 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Guy Maor <maor@ece.utexas.edu>

To: Santiago Vila Doncel <sanvila@unex.es>

Cc: 16970@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: 12 Jan 1998 08:20:46 -0800

Santiago Vila Doncel <sanvila@unex.es> writes:

> Ok, but the same thing could be said if the file is just modified:

I agree that it's not a terrific argument, but modifying and deleting
are not entirely the same thing.  You modify a file because you're not
happy with the defaults.  New defaults will probably mean that you
need to modify it more.

You delete a file because you want to invoke some special behavior of
the program, maybe to shut it off?

Maybe Ian can frame a better argument for this.


Guy

Message #40 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Yann Dirson <ydirson@a2points.com>

To: Guy Maor <maor@ece.utexas.edu>, 16970@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:43:19 +0100

Guy Maor writes:
 > Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net> writes:
 > > I can understand that as a rational for not replacing it, but why not
 > > prompt?
 > 
 > It doesn't prompt on the presumption that removing a config file is a
 > deliberate action.  The user doesn't want to be prompted each time the
 > upstream source changes; he just wants to run the program without any
 > config file.

I remember I asked myself that same question when I accidentally made
kbd remove its own conffile, and could not get it installed again.
Then I read the docs, understood the problem, and modified the
distributed conffile.
Then I think I remember dpkg asked me whether to replace my deleted
conffile with the new distributed conffile, and users' complaints have
gone too.

Thus I'm quite puzzled by these statements which seem to contradict
what I remember to have experienced...

-- 
Yann Dirson  <ydirson@a2points.com>      | Stop making M$-Bill richer & richer,
alt-email:     <dirson@univ-mlv.fr>      |     support Debian GNU/Linux:
debian-email:   <dirson@debian.org>      |         more powerful, more stable !
http://www.a2points.com/homepage/3475232 | Check <http://www.debian.org/>

Message #45 received at 16970@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Guy Maor <maor@ece.utexas.edu>

To: Yann Dirson <ydirson@a2points.com>

Cc: 16970@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#16970: dpkg: doesn't like deleted conffiles

Date: 17 Jan 1998 17:29:22 -0800

> Then I think I remember dpkg asked me whether to replace my deleted
> conffile with the new distributed conffile, and users' complaints have
> gone too.

Yes, I may have misinterpreted the documentation.  I'll have to test
it to be sure.


Guy

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