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Re: Possible framework for `debmake replacement'



Hi,
 [I hope this is not a fiat, and we can still discuss this]
>>"Bruce" == Bruce Perens <bruce@pixar.com> writes:

Bruce> I too am dubious about the "compiler" form of deb-make
Bruce> replacement. The problem is that it does not catch up as policy
Bruce> changes. It would be very difficult to make a "compiler" form
Bruce> of rules builder that would automaticaly incorporate policy
Bruce> changes into existing packages as deb-make often does. Once you
Bruce> edit the generated script, you don't want to send it back
Bruce> through the tool again and lose your changes.

       The sticking point everyone is hung up upon is that they don't
 want the developer to loose changes when the packaging tool is rerun
 (to pick up updates to pilicy, say). That is understandable, and
 needs to be a firm requirement. Any implementation of the packaging
 tool shall have to guarantee that. OK?

	If there are technical reasons against a compiler tool, I want
 to hear them, but unfeasibility is not a valid concern (IMHO). I have
 already posted *one* possible method of attaining this goal.

	Also. I don't want to have my package build break just because
 the sysadmin happened to have upgraded the system, and I need to get
 a critical bug fix in, and don't have time to change things to match
 the policy till the weekend.


	My contention is, there is always going to be a delay for a
 policy change to propogate (takes time for people to get new
 packages, mirror sites lag a couple of days, maintainer busy for a
 week or so, etc). 

     The developer is the only one who can co-ordinate conformance
 with policy upgrades; we have to make it easier for him/her, not make
 their job harder by changing the system around them. Giving the
 maintainer control over when the upgrade to new policy happens,
 rather than subtly breaking the package build process, seems a better
 solution.

Bruce> I would prefer to see a run-time hueristic something like
Bruce> debstd with much more fine control over overrides.

	And I prefer a compiler that allows 
 a) The package build process to be independent of the presence of the
    tool
 b) Increased auditability
 c) Easy modification of the build process
 d) Preservation of user changes.
 e) The build not to subtly fail because of version mismatches. 

	If the helper tools run at run time can meet the above
 requirements, than lets have at them. I have no particular liking for
 the compiler; it just felt a better technical solution.

	We can do this. Let us not compromise unless we have
 to. Please consider the alternative before deciding on am
 implementaion.  What we need right now is what you think the system
 should do, and when *all* that is in, we decide on a method to
 implement it. 

     manoj
 working hard on the requirements document, out later today
-- 
 "If we are to begin packaging ourselves as boxes of cereal, Democracy
 will die... for you could not win the presidency without proving
 unworthy of the job." Adlai Stevenson
Manoj Srivastava               <url:mailto:srivasta@acm.org>
Mobile, Alabama USA            <url:http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>


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