On Sat, 2021-08-14 at 14:33 +0200, David Kalnischkies wrote: > On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 10:16:57AM +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote: > > Unless the intention is to deprecate allowing to change > > /etc/apt/sources.list and mandating that only hard-coded official > > Debian repositories can be used on Debian installations, of course, > > which would be, uh, interesting to see? > > That is ironic given the current 'transition' plan is to have the > release notes nudge all people who upgrade instead of reinstall their > systems, chroots and what not to please do it for all of them by hand > at a to be specified flag day someday between now and bookworm > freeze – while a buster user might be able to do it now by hand, > a repository admin has no such luxury as their packages have to > continue > to work until the flag day, so no dice embedding /usr/bin/grep, but > after the flag day all dependencies could embed it breaking the > unmerged > build chroot still only having /bin/grep, so I hope we are picking a > day > on which every repository owner has some free time to do the flip… or > well, deprecate them all as you suggest. As an APT dev I would > approve. > > Not sure why you are singling out Debian as fine though, given we > have > the very same problem for our fleet of buildds and porterboxes, some > DSA > owned and some not. Thank goodness binary uploads by maintainers are > a thing of the past never to be seen or even required for… oh, right… > > But yeah, upgrades. Minor problem. > Nothing which can't be fixed with a good reinstall. > > > To be clear: I couldn't care less about the if and how of /usr-merge. > I do appreciate that some plans have a better upgrade experience > though, > not only as a user, but as dev as failed upgrades tend to be > attributed > to apt –– and I am a bit shocked we are fine with flag days nowadays. > In the good old MultiArch days (that is a decade ago already!) a flag > day wasn't even seriously considered an option desperate the costs. > How > times change… so it is okay now if I finally axe aptitude, right? :P > (I am joking, I still think doing it this way was the right move – > and > the bigger cost is arch:all not being M-A:foreign by default anyhow) > > > Best regards > > David Kalnischkies > > P.S.: I picked out only this line as I think most of the rest is more > or less discussed to death already in other sub-threads and at times > actually objectively wrong – like the amount of packages shipping > something in /bin and co – so I don't feel like rehashing those. Not > that I feel like wanting to discuss this point either, I just find it > hideous to use a "what about upgrades?!?" hyperbole in this > situation. Were upgrades impossible in Ubuntu when it switched and were manual reinstallation mandatory for the entire user base, chroots, whatnot? No. Then why should it be the case for Debian if we do the exact same thing with the exact same tools? -- Kind regards, Luca Boccassi
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