TL;DR: Can we please be done with this discussion soonest?
>>>>> "Roberto" == Roberto C Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> writes:
Roberto> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 02:36:41PM +0000, Matthew Vernon wrote:
>> Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > I had thought that there was room for a dissenting opinion, but
>> > clearly there isn't.
>>
>> You can think what you like - the requirement is that you treat
>> people in Debian with respect,
Roberto> Such a requirement, if it does in fact exist, is certainly
Roberto> not equally applied.
It does exist: point one of the Debian code of conduct.
It's true that it is not applied equally.
As the Code of Conduct states,"a community in which people feel
threatened is not a healthy community."
In the diversity statement we've said that we welcome people regardless
of how they identify themselves. So, yes,we do treat things that are
likely to cause people to feel threatened rather than welcomed based on
their identity as bigger deals than perhaps some other things.
Civility and respect are not entirely the same thing. Sometimes when
civility is used as a tool for oppression, it can be used as a tool to
deny people respect.
That said, I agree with some comments Russ made about always respecting
people--even when we disagree with them strongly enough that we don't
even choose to listen to their positions.
I tried to do that: I tried to say that the pronoun debate in Debian has
happened and it's closed.
Similar to how you need to follow the DFSg in your Debian work,
respecting people in that way is part of working in Debian.
If you are unable or unwilling to do that, we still respect you: we
respectfully invite you to return when circumstances change.
My take on the whole tone policing thing. It is critical that demands
for civility (or even respect) not be used as a way to shut down
marginalized people talking about their treatment, demanding dignity or
similar.
If someone is being treated badly, it is important that we consider
their concern, even if we hope they would present their concern with
greater respect. I personally hope that we choose to respect people
always--even when they do not respect us in return.
I understand that is very difficult, and I do not always achieve it.
So, I understand when others do not achieve it as well.
>> which means (in this case) that if you use pronouns to refer to
>> them, you endeavour to use their preferred pronouns.
>>
Roberto> Should we also endeavour to be respectful to those who hold
Roberto> policital views, religious beliefs, or even general
Roberto> opinions with which we disagree?
Yes.
Speaking as a member of a religious minority, we definitely don't always
achieve that goal.
But yes, in the CoC, we commit to that too.
>> The CoC is about behaviour.
>>
Roberto> If anything, "behaviour" seems to be worse now than it was
Roberto> before.
It's my experience that behavior has improved significantly in Debian
over the last 10-12 years in ways that make the project much easier to
be part of.
Obviously we have more work to do. I look forward to working with the
I hope to be part of working with you all to do that work.
Sam Hartman
Debian Project Leader
Attachment:
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature