Re: I can't beleive this
>Understandable. We need a good Debian book, luckily, multiple such projectas
>are under work.
If they are online books perhaps you could point me to the authors - maybe
some help is needed ? (I'm not keen to work voluntarily for commercial
productions)
>
>> Coming from the Windows world - when something doesn't work reinstall
the OS !
>
>:)
Glad you understand :)
>
>> >> Again I would like to suggest that the install could be made much easier
>> >> with a couple of (not necessarily simple) changes. For instance,
providing
>> >> a kernal with SB16/AWE32/AWE64 support already present and working.
>> >
>> >The kernel can't guess or detect the interrupts and ioports. AWE cards
also
>> >require often pnp set up. You are asking for too much. However, ALSA will
>> >have better sound support and auto detection. The OSS Lite sound driver is
>> >really crap.
>>
>> I can understand you saying that it is difficult but I can't understand you
>> saying impossible.
>
>I don't remember the exact quote, but usually saying "it's impossible" in
>the Free Software world means, "well, that's very hard to do, and I don't
>know how and don't have the time to find out how to do it" :)
Fair comment - I'm not completely unaware of the pressures placed on
volunteers
>
>> From what I understand RH at least has working
>> autodetect and along with OSS it has been proved to be possible.
>
>Yes, it is. Still, OSS is semi-free software (OSS lite is free, the official
>costs bucks), and is not worth working much on. Alsa, as I said, will have
>support for multiple sound cards and better auto detection.
I haven't heard of alsa previously - I can see I have some research to do
<SNIP discussion on sound cards>
>I don't like the module screen, too, it should be optional. An alternative
>would not be to compile everything in, but to use the auto-module-loader kmod
>by default.
I'm pleased that we agree on this :)
>
>> There are IMHO too many packages installed as standard many of which I
>> haven't even looked at yet myself despite using Linux daily. This creates
>> the second problem of too much choice for the new user. As I said above, I
>> feel one low power easy to use editor will do just to get the new user
>> going same as notepad in windows.
>
>Just remember that Linux is not Windows, but a Unix clone. So we will have
>more unixish structure then windowish. Every new user msut accept that.
>Therefore, the standard editor is not notepad, but vi. The reasons are also
>historical ones.
Thank you - I regularly forget to assess Linux from the Unix point of view.
It's good to have been reminded
>
>I wonder what the SEUL (simple end user linux) is doing. Someone should
>definitely build a simple linux based on Debian targetted to ex windows
>user. But let's not make bare Debian to that.
Agreed
>
>I don't think making Debian windowish does really help anyone.
>A derivative of Debian can be windowish, I would encourage everyone t try
>something like this.
>
>> When more is needed then more can be
>> installed. New users are going through enough trauma already getting used
>> to the command line - bearing in mind that, from what I can see, most of
>> the newbies are Windows users who have never even used or seen any *nix
>> before.
>
>Well, that should be changed, right?
>
>> Both vi and emacs are very powerful tools but have a steep learning curve.
>> I was almost put off of Linux in general because I thought that learning
>> either was too much trouble. Fortunately I discovered ae before it was too
>> late !
>
>:)
>
>As I said, for the braindead windows user, a simple end user linux should be
>prepared. Everyone else will have to swallow our philosophy anway, so why
>not right from the start...
Definitely a very good idea - is someone working on this or is there an
abandoned project ripe for takeover somewhere ?
>
>> >> Why not,
>> >> if a X type setup has been chosen just install Netscape (plus maybe
Lynx)
>> >> instead of NS, Lynx, Mozilla, W3 etc ... These sorts of examples
just go
>> >> on and on.
>> >
>> >Netscape is not part of Debian, sorry. I would find it VERY annoying if
>> >selecting X would select a web browser, too. Again, I don't know what you
>> >exactly are complaining about (see above).
>>
>> I understood that NS is available from the non-free section ?
>
>non-free section is not part of Debian GNU/Linux.
Ooops :) My mistake
>
>> The above browsers are ALL installed as standard from the Hamm distro
>> (using the dialup user option during install). This to me is very annoying
>> because I don't want them and it takes up more time during the installation
>> and more disk space needlessly. I understand that just about any package
>> can be de-installed quite easily but the point is that I don't see why I
>> should have to.
>
>Agreed.
>
>You raise very valid points. And I really have to try hard to find good
>excuses why we haven't fixed those problems already :)
>
>> It is only by people outside the development community making suggestions
>> that the developers can be aware of the "wish list" that these people have.
>> I would hope that no-one expects volunteers to drop everything to try to
>> satisfy a difficult or impossible request immediately or sooner but surely
>> even the impossible requests/suggestions/ideas are all grist for the
>> development mill ?
>
>Well, let me rephrase it: After a while, you seldom notice something new :)
>Some new requests pop up, some vanish, but over a long time they stay the
>same. It's not too bad to get reminded often, but I would be more happy
>if people would include patches :)
>
Having had the benefit of hindsight I may have kept my mouth shut :) I
also am beginning to recognise the same complaints occurring time and again
and realise that I have added to the general overflow of adding complaints
without proposing realistic solutions.
>> Again let me emphasise that I am not complaining - I would like these
>> comments and any others that I make to be taken as constructive criticism.
>> If I had the coding skills I would implement the ideas myself and in time I
>> will.
>
>Your comments are appreciated! You don't need to be a coder to help. Set up
>a web page where you keep track of the boot floppy development and which
>parts of the install are troublesome (stuff like installing emacs and
>xemacs). If you have a spare partition to make test installs, that is all
>what is needed. Then mail the boot floppy team about your analyse.
>
>That's just a suggestion. There are zillion ways to help.
A web page probably isn't realistic for me at the moment as I don't know
how long I will be staying with this isp.
As it happens I have a 486 with 2Gb h/d just laying around - to think I
never thought of using it in this way. Thank you. I have a couple of
smail & networking problems to resolve (keep your eyes open for my
questions when they come !) and will go this route.
>
>Thanks,
>Marcus
No, thank _you_ Marcus - you have been kind, informative and patient.
Ivan.
ps. I wonder about your .sig - is there a meaning to this ?
>`Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.'
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