Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...
On 11/4/2014 6:08 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
> Le Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:26:40 -0500,
> Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> a écrit :
>
>> Laurent Bigonville wrote:
>>> Le Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:57:20 -0500,
>>> Jerry Stuckle <jstuckle@attglobal.net> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> On 11/4/2014 4:41 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
>>>>> Le Tue, 04 Nov 2014 21:08:50 +0100,
>>>>> Peter Nieman <gmane-acct@t-online.de> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/11/14 19:04, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
>>>>>>> Using the threat of forking to make people change their mind
>>>>>> I didn't threaten anybody.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> do not send 100 mails to ML's
>>>>>> I didn't. I don't even know what "ML's" are.
>>>>> That was not directed to you, but a more generic statement about
>>>>> people talking about forking debian.
>>>>>
>>>>> (ML's == Mailing List's)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't see that as a "threat". I see it as an attempt to
>>>> determine if there are enough others interested to make it a
>>>> viable project.
>>>>
>>>> And lists like this one are a perfect place to find out of there
>>>> are other users interested in such a project.
>>> http://debianfork.org/:
>>>
>>> "If systemd will be substituting sysvinit in Debian, we will fork
>>> the project and create a new distro. We hope this won't be
>>> necessary, but we are well prepared for it."
>>>
>>> I call that a threat. And the same kind of message are all around
>>> the debian mailing lists and other social media.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Does it really matter if it's a "threat," or a statement of intent,
>> or even just a wish? You seem to imply that there's something wrong
>> with such a statement.
>>
>> Given the number of folks who are saying "if you don't like systemd,
>> go somewhere else," and the tradition of forking open source software
>> (and linux distributions) over various differences of opinion -- what
>> is it that you're objecting to?
>>
>> Personally, I see it as a clear and strong statement of
>> dissatisfaction that's likely to lead to significant defection from
>> Debian - to other existing distros, and possibly to one or more new
>> forks.
>>
>> What, exactly, is it that you are objecting to here? That folks
>> aren't just happy to go along with a major shift in Debian? That
>> people are making their opinions clear? That people won't adopt
>> Jessie, and will desert Debian once Wheezy starts to reach EOL? That
>> folks might go so far as to create a new fork? Something else?
>
> I'm objecting to the fact that they are doing announcement like that
> instead of actually forking. That kind of message contributes to the
> never ending discussion that is for a long time draining the energy of a
> lot of developers (including me).
>
Why? Before forking, one needs to know if there is sufficient support
to create a fork. There is no reason to fork if only one or two want it.
I don't see where the announcement is "draining the energy of a lot of
developers" - unless you're afraid the fork will succeed better than Debian.
> The situation for jessie will NOT change (the freeze is the Thu 6/11 at
> 00:00 UTC around 25h from now), systemd will stay the default init
> system for jessie as this decision is clearly not challenged by the GR.
>
Which does not affect the fork - except maybe to increase the support
for it.
> The "funny" thing is that there is ATM NO software in the debian archive
> that requires systemd as PID1 to run[0] (zero, null, nil, None). So even
> if Ian's GR passes, nothing will in practice change. There is software
> however requiring _components_ of systemd to run properly, but from my
> understanding this is again NOT covered by the GR.
>
No, but as it stands the default is systemd - and that has a huge effect
on future packages.
> So people not happy with today's situation and calling to fork will not
> be more happy tomorrow.
>
Why not? If there is a fork which gets rid of systemd, it will make a
lot of people happier.
> So to summarize:
>
> - Debian releases jessie
> - People that still want to fork do whatever they want
> - Everybody is happy
> - End of the story
>
Yes, but you seem to want to stifle any discussion of a possible fork.
> [0] OK I lied there is systemd-cron
>
>>
>> Miles Fidelman
>>
>>
Jerry
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