Re: call for seconds: on firmware
On Sun, Nov 16 2008, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 09:01:38PM +0000, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 16 2008, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 06:04:32PM +0000, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> >> First of all, please stop the obnoxious cross-posting. It makes the
>> >> threads unreadable anyway.
>> >>
>> >> (If you could stop the condescending and pedantic tone, that would help
>> >> as well, but I guess that would be asking too much of you.)
>> >>
>> >> Le dimanche 16 novembre 2008 à 11:34 -0600, Manoj Srivastava a écrit :
>> >> > So, really, we cannot release programs (firmware) in main
>> >> > without source code just because a few delegates think we should.
>> >>
>> >> So another delegate (the secretary) should make the decision instead?
>> >
>> > I believe the sense of the vote is to clarify the DFSG and that there is
>> > no consensus on the matter. We could decide a 3:1 majority to say that
>> > firmwares are subject to the DFSG _as well_ as for saying that the
>> > firmwares are _not_ subject to the DFSG.
>>
>> The SC is pretty clear about everything in the Debian system
>> (which includes image .debs) should be 100% free. Not just things in
>> the Debian system that run on a host CPU (what is that, anyway) are
>> free.
>
> The SC speaks about software, and doesn't define it. I believe software
> is what is interpreted or run on the host CPU, firmware is in a gray
> area. All is a matter of interpretation and I believe we have to settle
> that, once and for all. Firmwares are not going to disappear anytime
> soon, and playing that game for each release is destroying us from the
> inside.
I tend to agree with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_software
Back when I voted on the social contract, and now, I believe
that everything computer related that is not hardware (or wetware), is
software/. The article also states:
Firmware which is software programmed resident to electrically
programmable memory devices on board mainboards or other types
of integrated hardware carriers
So, there seem to be a wide spread view that firmware are indeed
software.
I think that an entity, like a program, can have multiple
representations:
* It starts life as wetware, when I think through the steps needed
* It may have a stint as hardware (something tanngible), when I print
it out, or write it out using pen and paper
* When encoded as 0/1 and 1. it is in a software representation.
I believe now, as I did then, that everything we distribute on a
CD, being encoded in 0s and 1s, is software.
manoj
--
Every man is as God made him, ay, and often worse. Miguel de Cervantes
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
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