Topic Request

[Bolan Meek <Bolan.Meek@wcom.com>]

Gentlemen (and whatever ladies there may be out of the 119
names above -I really didn't spot any-):

It really is with some embarrasment, due to my relative
late-comer-ness, not yet being a full-and-accepted
Debian Developer -my application is a week old-, and
the status of Debian-maturity of many of my addressees,
that I humbly request that you move this discussion
from debian-devel and debian-user to debian-project, to:

1) free up those lists for the issues of package development
   and use of Debian, respectively, and
2) employ the latter for the purpose for which it was made.

It shouldn't be too difficult, the next time you reply
to a message, to edit the -devel or -user to -project,
nor to subscribe to that list if you haven't already.

I grant that it is slightly more strenuous to edit the
mail filters to sort for the new list, but I'm confident
that you can handle that.  I also recognize that I could
merely edit my own filters so that this doesn't show
up in my debian-devel and -user folders, but in -project
instead (and I've done so), but feel I ought to make this
request because it is The Right Thing To Do, and to
contribute in some small way as a facilitator.

To any I already made this kind of request, my apologies
for missing your name in the above list.

Quoting a previous message, primarily for the snip
from http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/subscribe :
(edited only for formatting)

Bolan Meek wrote:
> 
> Buddha Buck wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: David N. Welton [mailto:davidw@linuxcare.com]
> > > ...
> > >
> > > There is actually a list for these kinds of
> > > meta-project discussions: debian-project. 
> > > It was lame for the origianl poster not to post there,
> > > in my opinion.
> >
> > I disagree.  While debian-project exists, it isn't known to
> > every developer or other interested party (like myself). 
> > A proposal to do something as broadreaching as amending the
> > Social Contract needs to be discussed in as wide a forum
> > as possible.
> 
> Your disagreement was based on previous ignorance of the
> availability and topic of the debian-project list.  Since
> you now know, you ought to agree.
> 
> From the http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/subscribe page,
> accessible via the home page (edited only for formatting):
> 
>         ...
>         debian-project
>                 Debian project related non-technical
>                 (i.e. political, organizational, etc.)
>                 discussions.
>             Moderated: no     Subscription: open       ...
>         debian-devel
>                 This is the main discussion list for 
>                development topics. All developers should be
>                subscribed to this list. As it is open to the 
>		public anyone can join the discussion.
>            Moderated: no     Subscription: open
>         ...
> 
> debian-project is as open as debian-user, and anyone who wants
> to follow, and/or comment on, this issue ought to do so in
> debian-project.  An announcement in debian-devel and debian-user
> should be sufficient.  I'm interested in the debate (currently
> I'm anti-"get rid of non-free", but pro-"valid proposal: vote
> on it"), but I'd like debian-devel to stay free for development
> issues, and debian-user to stay free for the topic of using Debian.

Another, similar message, with more snip:
(edited to remove the above quoted message, and for formatting)
Bolan Meek wrote:
> 
> Gentlemen, thank you for responding.  Of the fourteen requests I sent
> to move this discussion to debian-project, which is "chartered" for
> this type of intercourse, you were the only ones who replied.
> 
> I don't know whether I'll keep up the effort to make these kinds
> of requests, since there are so many who would rather hit >reply<
> and blast away than to include an a well-reasoned rebuttal an
> editing of the To: || Cc: field of devel^H^H^H^H^Hproject.
> 
> brian moore wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 05:05:42PM -0500, Bolan Meek wrote:
> > > brian moore wrote:
> > > >...
> > > > No, the royalty payment is demanded for encoders ...
> > >
> > > How about next time ...
> 
> > How about I do that better and just procmail the whole thing into
> > /dev/null?
> 
> If everyone would discuss this in -project, you shouldn't need to
> adjust your recipes, because -devel wouldn't get cluttered by it.
> 
> > If the people arguing are stupid enough to believe that a Free mp3
> > player exists, they're not worth arguing with.
> 
> The issue is much bigger than MP3 facilities.  But everyone's favorite
> toy or ideal stimulates strong emotions when threatened.
> 
> > ...
> 
> Jeff Teunissen wrote:
> >
> > Bolan Meek wrote:
> 
> > > Jeff Teunissen wrote:
> 
> > > > The QPL satisfies the DFSG. ... So what's the problem here?
> > >
> > > How about next time ...
> 
> > My message was not relevant to the removal of non-free, and I
> > exclusively responded to the mistaken claim that QPL software
> > was banned from Debian or something.
> 
> The message thread nonetheless belongs in -project, and not in
> -devel.  My method, for the sake of efficiency, was to reply to
> the individual, and read the actual message later.  The issue of
> QPL isn't so much an issue of the development of Debian packages,
> the supposed topic of -devel.
> 
> > ...
> 
> Raul Miller wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 04:53:17PM -0500, Bolan Meek wrote:
> > > Raul Miller wrote:
> 
> > > > Sure there is -- if you don't mind introducing a wrapper ...
> > >
> > > How about next time ...
> 
> > Are you suggesting that this post of mine was not about a
> > development issue?
> 
> Not merely suggesting, but pointing out, as in the quote including a
> snip
> from http://www.debian.org/MailingLists (again, below).  -devel is
> supposed
> to be a forum for the discussing of technical issues of developing
> Debian
> packages, -project is supposed to be for political issues of developing
> Debian overall.
> 
> In fact, it will have to eventually go to -vote.  I'll try to identify
> those on each side of the issue over the next two weeks, and request
> among the developers in each camp that they compose a summary case
> among themselves for posting to -vote.  I don't get to vote yet,
> not yet being accepted as a developer (my application is only a week
> old, so far...), but maybe I can contribute as a facilitator in this.
> 
> Gentlemen, did it do any good for me to quote the aforementioned page?
> Is everyone so stuck in whatever first way he has adopted that he will
> have an automatic knee-jerk against an exhortation to change?
> Will it do any good for me to continue to urge moving this to -project,
> or am I merely quixotically tilting at windmills?
> 
> (At the risk of boorish repetition:)
> snips from
> http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/subscribe :
> ...
> debian-user
>         This is the main mailing list for all users and developers of
>         Debian GNU/Linux systems. Many developers also follow
>         the threads and step in to help every now and then.
>                 Moderated: no     Subscription: open
> ...
> debian-vote
>         Proposals, discussions and announcements related to Official
>         Debian Votes.
>                 Moderated: no     Subscription: open
> ...
> debian-project
>         Debian project related non-technical (i.e. political,
>         organizational, etc.) discussions.
>                 Moderated: no     Subscription: open
> ...
> debian-devel
>         This is the main discussion list for development topics. All
>         developers should be subscribed to this list. As it is open to
>         the public anyone can join the discussion.
>                 Moderated: no     Subscription: open
>         debian-devel-digest is a read-only, digestified version.
> ...
>