Re: [Debconf-discuss] Presentation no longer on the schedule!?
On 23/05/07 at 09:17 -0700, Keith Curtis wrote:
> Of course public debate of all details is the Debian way, and this
> "insider perspective" is making me think I should add another bullet
> point to my talk about the importance of focus--if I give it!
>
> Your assumption is that no one outside of Ubuntu or Debian development
> has any ideas which may be relevant to the issue of Ubuntu / Debian,
> but I disagree with that way of thinking.
No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, since you are
an outsider, your talk would be a "have you considered doing this ?"
talk. If you were already involved in this stuff, it would be more like
"I'm going to do that, what do you think ?".
So far, all human-based initiatives (ie initiatives that cannot be
executed by cron) have failed or have been mostly inactive because of a
lack of manpower (think of utnubu or DCT). Sure, a lot of people have
ideas, but nobody seem to be interested in implementing them.
So the main question in Debian/Ubuntu collaboration is "is it worth it ?
do we need a closer collaboration, involving humans instead of scripts
?" And I'm starting to think that the current situation isn't that bad.
Of course, it would be nice if Ubuntu devs could file bugs in the BTS,
but if they prefer losing time when they merge packages, it's their
problem.
> Furthermore, you don't need to join the
> Debian/Ubuntu team to read blog postings, send e-mails to Debian and Ubuntu
> developers on this topic, read the fork/branch memo, etc. Actually doing all
> of this didn't change my perspective,
Yeah, but the main problem with your talk is that it's a "perspective"
or "opinion" talk. You aren't presenting work you did. You are
presenting your opinion. So the question, from the POV of the reviewers,
is: "why is this opinion so interesting ?". By not being involved in any
development, you certainly don't score points here.
> All the points you raise in your blog have already
> >been raised (and answered) several times in the past.
>
> I believe that several of the points I raise have not been raised by others,
> or if they have, they have been glossed over and forgotten, most
> specifically around sharing areas of responsibility, something I'm not ready
> to get into here.
Have you already prepared your slides ? Can you send me a copy ?
> While you think all the questions have been answered, I think there are
> *many* questions that have been asked, but not answered. Take for example,
> Joey Hess's question: "Is Debian is being relegated to a supermarket of
> components?" I have not seen an answer to that question.
Isn't etch a good answer to that ?
> > Have you considered getting involved in Debian and/or Ubuntu
> > development (especially in areas involving collaboration between Ubuntu
> > and Debian), so you could get an insider view and compare your ideas
> > with reality ?
>
> I thought that making a presentation was a way to get involved. If I did
> decide to become a developer, I'd have to figure out which team I should
> join. There's another unanswered question.
Well, if you are going to give a talk about the Debian/Ubuntu
relationship, you should already know the different initiatives that
work in that area, and be able to determine alone which one you should
help...
> >I hope you will come to Debconf, and can attend some sort of
> >"Debian/Ubuntu collaboration" BOF.
>
> I would of course, but I also feel that what I have to contribute will take
> a number of minutes to convey.
You could prepare a position statement (as a blog post for example). I
wasn't convinced by your current blog post about that stuff: it lacks
quite a lot of data (ie real numbers).
--
| Lucas Nussbaum
| lucas@lucas-nussbaum.net http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/ |
| jabber: lucas@nussbaum.fr GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |
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