On Thu, Jan 20, 2000 at 11:11:08AM -0800, David Johnson wrote:
> > It seems actually that they are not. Much of KDE is still GPL'd and there
> > largely seems to be little to no interest among the KDE people to do
> > anything about it.
>
> I think what you're seeing is a lack of urgency rather than a lack of
> interest. A lot of the *new* KDE applications, including most of
> KOffice, are not under the GPL. But why change the old licenses (playing
> the devil's advocate)? They have given explicit and public permission
> for everyone to distribute KDE. That some people delude themselves into
> thinking such permission has not been given is irrelevant to KDE.
There's a little thing called Copyright law. Implicit permission is not
enough. And it's most definitely not enough if other people's
contributions are being used (and there _ARE_ cases of this in the KDE 2.0
tree still where people's code has been used and first hand knowledge
tells me that it is without their permission...)
Essentially, if KDE doesn't want to play by the rules---and it seems they
do not, they deserve EVERYTHING Troll Tech ever got (wrongly or otherwise)
and a hell of a lot more. I will personally do everything in my power to
see that lawsuits are filed against members of the KDE team for knowingly
infringing Copyright law if I have to.
> > Additionally, Troll Tech doesn't seem at all interested in making their
> > license compatible with the GPL.
>
> It's not Troll Tech's problem. The QPL does not offer legal insurance to
> users of Qt.
Correct. Now cut the bullshit.
You know as well as I do the ONLY REASON the QPL is not compatible with
the GPL at this point is because Troll Tech wants to spite one man--RMS.
Now I'm no fan of Richard Stallman (he knows that quite well by now I
suspect if he bothers to keep track of his email) but it hurts all of us
that they're so damned stubborn.
> After the incredible abuse they've received from the hands of certain
> advocates, Troll Tech has no desire to license their software under the
> LGPL. And they have no reason to. Qt is operating as the model
> commercial Open Source project. Troll Tech receives fixes and
> enhancements from the community and the community in turn takes pieces
> for their own projects. Peruse the qt-interest mailing list and check on
> their CVS logs.
They don't have to LGPL it.
I outlined two changes in total which would satisfy the GPL compatibility
issue in just about everyone's opinion and a third which should be changed
because I was apparently on drugs when I wrote it or something and could
go from eight lines to two and say the same thing. =p
As for abuse from the general mindless slashdot moron population, do you
not think I got enough of that myself? I received literally hundreds of
emails in the span of a day or two all flaming me for trying to help KDE
and Troll Tech... Did I stop trying? Did I refuse to do the right thing
because people flamed me for it? NO! I kept working (got seriously
annoyed sure, but I kept working on it..)
What's truly sad is that it seems those morons and idiots who haven't
collectively got an inkling of a clue seem to have been right: The
attempt to make distribution of KDE binaries linked with Qt legal and no
longer an infringement of Copyrights of the various KDE project members
and much more so the sometimes even unnamed and unwitting contributors
whose code has been used without permission in violation of the GPL is
simply fruitless. It can't happen because KDE doesn't want it to happen
enough that they're willing to put forth the effort...
And all the while, Troll Tech is sitting on the sidelines flipping us all
off while saying "it's not our problem"... Technically it's not to be
sure. But don't give me that they're not involved. They're neck-deep in
KDE and they know it as well as you and I know it. If KDE dies, Troll
Tech goes with it.
If KDE must be killed in courtrooms in order to stop this abuse of the
GPL, then so must it be! And I will personally do my damnedest to see it
done. I have gone to bat so many times defending the intents of KDE and
Troll Tech both so many times, only to be stabbed in the back.
Through all the flowery words used to convince me that KDE and Troll Tech
both had such nobile intents I can clearly see now the truth: They don't
care and believe nobody can or would ever do anything to stop them. Don't
stake your life on that because somebody can do something about it. And
if I have my way, they will.
> It is not KDE's fault that KDE is not in Debian. Rather, it is the other
> way around. Yes, I fully understand the issues and why Debian won't
> include it, but that still doesn't make it KDE's fault. They've had no
> problems getting their software included in Mandrake, Slackware, SuSE,
> TurboLinux, Caldera, Corel, Storm, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, or NetBSD. And only
> minor problems with Redhat. Did I miss any? Only Debian refuses to
> include it.
It's quite simple: Red Hat, et al do not believe they're likely to be
sued for including KDE. That's too bad because they might well be. And I
suspect they'll rethink their decision when lawsuits begin to be filed.
> > That they don't care is offensive to us, and as
> > long as they continue to abuse it, we can't support them.
>
> How is the world is KDE abusing the GPL? They are the licensor!
Oh really? What about the code they didn't write? The GPL does not give
them permission to use other people's code in ways which violate the GPL.
They don't have the right to use a license other than the GPL for a
sizable portion of the code in KDE. The fact that they believe otherwise
indicates the need for legal action. I dare say KDE is glad none of my
code is in KDE because all of my code is GPL'd.
> > I suggest we boycott KDE (and suggest others do the same) until such
> > time as the KDE people or the Troll Tech people (it technically isn't
> > their problem, they just happen to be in the simplest position to fix it)
> > or perhaps both wake up.
>
> Okay, you're not being rational about this anymore. If KDE is the
> wrongdoer (generally one only boycotts wrongdoers), how could anything
> Troll Tech do change that? If KDE can transform from the wrongdoer into
> an upstanding citizen of the "community" without any action on their
> part whatsoever, then I suspect that they weren't wrongdoers to begin
> with.
Only KDE can make themselves "upstanding citizens". There is and will be
for some time to come a lot of mistrust of KDE. They brought that on
themselves. And to be honest I don't give a rip who trusts them. But
yes, Troll Tech could solve the legal issues.
The trust issues are another matter entirely.
In the end it's quite simple: Link Qt against my code in violation of the
GPL and I'll sue you. If this is the only way I can protect the integrity
and license of my code, so be it. I'm sorry it seems to be coming down to
this, but c'est la vie, non?
--
Joseph Carter <knghtbrd@debian.org> Debian Linux developer
http://tank.debian.net GnuPG key pub 1024D/DCF9DAB3 sub 2048g/3F9C2A43
http://www.debian.org 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3
Something must be Done
This is Something
Therefore, This must be Done
-- The Thatcherite Syllogism
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