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Re: [gnu.misc.discuss,gnu.emacs.gnus] Free software: Packagers vs Developers



On Friday 2 July 1999, at 15 h 20, the keyboard of Per Abrahamsen 
<abraham@dina.kvl.dk> wrote:

> For their own problems, maybe.  For the users problems, the users are the
> experts. 

As a developer, I cannot disagree more. I'm fed up with useless bug reports 
from people saying "Hey, I tried to run your program and it fails". I prefer 
pre-digested reports by someone knowledgeable and trustable. Judging by the 
reactions of upstream authors, when I forward them bug reports, I'm not 
isolated.
 
> > Adam di Carlo tried, on that same mailing list, to remind Debian
> > developers to be nice with upstream authors, since they are at the
> > origin of free software, after all
> 
> A rather condenscending formulation.

If you don't like this wording (which is mine, not Adam's) please stop using 
"middleman" as an insult. We are packagers, and proud of it.

> Most developers just curse you, 

Again, I interact with many upstream authors and my experience is not this 
one. I would say that 60-70 % are kind and responsive, 20-30 % are kind but 
unresponsive (overload of work?) and the rest are probably retired in a desert 
island.

> > No need to do so. Everything is public
> > <http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages> .
> 
> Yeah, right . That is called " figure out what code he has received
> from Debian".

The Debian source package is made of the original tarball (pristine) plus a 
'.diff'. Exclude from the '.diff' everything which is in the "debian/" 
directory (which is meta-data) and you'll have "what code he has received from 
Debian".

> > Do you know this specific package and its author? (BTW, my opinion
> > is that he is not a maniac refusing any help from Debian as a matter
> > of principle, he simply has other things to do).
> 
> I have never heard of it.  If he is too busy, couldn't you join as a
> co-developer of the project, or maybe even take it over?

It's more work and responsabilities. For instance, it means testing on other 
operating systems. You can have a slot time to work on a Debian-specific 
version and not to work on the upstream one.

> Because bugs and feature requests and  don't get reported to the
> developers, if they are already addressed by the middlemen.

If they are Debian-specific, it's reasonable. 

> First step is to acknowledge that there is a problem.

I don't think so. There is an issue, cooperating with other people. It is not 
easy and will never be. But it's not a problem, rather an opportunity to meet 
new and interesting people.

> Second step is to realise that the problem can be lessened.

Yes, but I disagree with the measures you suggested.

> > (BTW, for queso, I didn't wrote them, someone send me the patches :-)
> 
> This actually makes it worse.  Getting patches from someone who didn't
> wrote them is _really_ useless.

I don't think so. If you think about security, it's true that I accept patches which are not PGP-signed, but I never integrate them without reading them and testing them.




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