Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC

[Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org>]

>>>>> "Iustin" == Iustin Pop <iustin@debian.org> writes:

    >> It does exist: point one of the Debian code of conduct.
    >> 
    >> It's true that it is not applied equally.  As the Code of Conduct
    >> states,"a community in which people feel threatened is not a
    >> healthy community."
    >> 
    >> In the diversity statement we've said that we welcome people
    >> regardless of how they identify themselves.  So, yes,we do treat
    >> things that are likely to cause people to feel threatened rather
    >> than welcomed based on their identity as bigger deals than
    >> perhaps some other things.

    Iustin> Can you please expan on this? Is there a hidden stack
    Iustin> ranking between the diversity statement and (parts of?) the
    Iustin> CoC?

    Iustin> My concern is this "hidden" assumption that identity trumps
    Iustin> other (unnamed) things (which ones?). The hidden part, not
    Iustin> the stack ranking.  For someone who is neither native
    Iustin> speaking nor very good at reading people, can we please stop
    Iustin> having implicit assumption about behaviour, and be explicit
    Iustin> about them?

I don't think things are as well defined as you're hoping for.
What I was responding to is the idea that sometimes people who are
talking about behavior in Debian seem to focus on certain things more
than others.
That we care about making margianalized groups welcome and that we spend
extra effort doing that.

I believe it is a true statement that a number of people who think about
the CoC and diversity statement do have that bias.
I don't think there's anything explicit beyond the combination of the
CoC and diversity statement.
And looking at how our community and other communities struggle with
these issues, reading a bunch of articles and thinking about what they
say.
But as a consequence of that, I do think it is true that there are some
things we prioritize.

I don't think the sort of explicit writeup you're hoping for exists, so
I cannot give it to you.  Also, I think it's evolving over time as
people learn new things and gain experience.

    Iustin> I also wonder why the diversity statement is not integrated
    Iustin> into the CoC directly - maybe, for example, as an extension
    Iustin> of (1) Be respectful; right now (1) seems to imply just
    Iustin> polite language, but not respecting other people's views.

I don't know why that didn't happen at the beginning.
What I do know is that changing it  now would require a GR.
I personally would not choose to start that process at this time.  I
don't think the benefit is worth the cost.

If others in the project did go down that road, I'd work to support it
as DPL.