Re: systemd-free alternatives are not off topic.
On 23/11/14 19:07, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> On 23/11/2014 11:14 AM, John Hasler wrote:
>> Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI writes:
>>> But they are anathema to the "We are systemd of Borg, resistance is
>>> futile" crowd.
>
>> And then there is the "Systemd is the Borg! Kill! Kill!" crowd who jump
>> into every mention of Systemd to piss and moan about the other crowd,
>> which then retaliates. While I can and will killfile you others
>> evidently can't or won't and so every attempt at a rational discussion
>> of anything Systemd related gets disrupted. I don't care for Systemd
>> but I am going to have to live with it and so I want to hear about it's
>> bugs, misfeatures, and workarounds. I do *not* want to hear about your
>> conspiracy theories nor do I want to hear any more sneering ridicule of
>> anyone who questions Systemd. Both "crowds" should just STFU. You are
>> doing nothing but antagonizing people.
Well said John, and thanks (for the record, I'm *not* pro-systemd, nor
anti - just keeping my mind carefully open, as I did with the
introduction of devfs and udev).
>
> Not to mention the fact that the list is NOT seeing the breadth of the
> problems with systemd -- the views of the not so few are being squashed
> time and time again with post moderation.
>
> You will never see the full picture of the problem if you only listen to
> what is allowed to be received via the debian-user list ... and you are
> deluded if you think the problem only concerns a small limited number of
> people.
>
> A.
>
How many people subscribe to this list?
How many people follow the various reposting of this list?
While there may be a large number of people who have "problems" with
systemd, many of which are Debian Users - most of them are polite, and
present their objections/queries in a rational manner (you would do well
to learn from them).
May I respectfully suggest that context is everything - only a very
small number of people*[*1]*, like yourself, make persistent, bullying,
vague claims about "problems" with systemd - while continually ignoring
that it is *not* forced on them. To suggest that you represent the
silent majority is the height of arrogance (and delusion?) - don't you
think. Likewise the "belief" that anyone who patiently tries to help you
solve the problems you continually refuse to *define* and *substantiate*
as fanbois or part of a "conspiracy" - does little to give credulence to
your claims. It does nothing gain you respect, divides the community
upon which *you* feed, and drowns out the legitimate concerns of others
due to your incessant bad behaviour. Your behaviour, not surprisingly,
irritates and offends users in general - to which you then claim is
evidence of persecution. There's a term for that - a classification even.
If you want fair hearing be respectful and intelligent - resorting the
hyberbole implies that your "argument" is short on facts.
List your *specific* problems with systemd and put them up *once* for
people to read and reply to. Twice implies lack of forethought, three
times implies? And you've ranted[*2 how many times?
Likewise your *half-dozen* similarly behaved "Veteran Unix
Administrators". There are many who have "concerns" about systemd - you
and your behaviour do not represent them.
This is a community of "users" - most who don't code or package, some of
which make a "contribution" in terms of reportbug. Those that code and
package make a "commitment" (it's an "eggs and bacon" thing if you need
an analogy). Developers and packages would not cease to exist if user
did, the opposite is the opposite. Clearly you haven't considered that -
please do.
[*1]https://lwn.net/Articles/620441/
[*2]] a term I apply *after* continually, and exhaustively, assuming
best intentions on your part. Time I could have spent trying to help
people with non-organic problems.
Kind regards (sincerely - try and embrace the difference instead of
trying to destroy those things 'you' don't want).
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