Re: Advantages/Disadvantages of Open Source Software (Was Re: Package grub-xen-host breaks PV domains with 11.5 point release)
On 9/14/2022 9:06 AM, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2022-09-14 at 08:51, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
>
> > On 9/14/2022 1:03 AM, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:41:11PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>> Actually, someone already has shown us how to do it better. His name is
> >>> Linus Torvalds [...]
> >>
> >> I don't know what your aim is.
> >>
> >> I have the impression that it's just arguing for arguing's sake [1].
> >>
> >> [1] in the classical sense of "trolling", as per Wikipedia:
> >> "In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory,
> >> insincere, digressive,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in
> >> an online community [...], with the intent of provoking readers
> >> into displaying emotional responses,[2] or manipulating others'
> >> perception.
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling
> >
> > So you are accusing me of being a troll. Well, it takes one to know one.
>
> No, it very much does not.
>
> > Congratulations! I am starting my own list of trolls on debian-user and
> > you are the first member of that list.
>
> Given the long, long history of helping people that Tomas has on this
> mailing list, I think that if you want to convince anyone other than
> yourself that Tomas is a troll, you're going to have a *very* heavy lift
> (or a whole lot of lying) ahead of you.
>
> (Mind, by my personal definition - which is a bit different from the
> above, though probably still largely compatible - I'm not entirely
> convinced that you're a troll either. But you're *definitely* behaving
> in such a way that I do not blame others for reaching that conclusion.)
I admit that I behaved like a troll when i tried to enter into a conversation with
Tomas. I do know he helps many people on this list, that is something good he
does. But on this thread, he also behaved like a troll and caused me to also
behave like a troll. That is a fact, if anyone wants to take the time to look at
what he said, the things he omitted in his replies, etc.
I especially noted his response to my introduction of the idea in this thread
that open source projects like Debian consider themselves communities, and
I wanted to emphasize that those who volunteer to help out with Debian or
other free software communities should not serve their own interests but the
interests of the community. After I made those points, that is when Tomas
started his ad hominum attacks against me and turned the conversation away
from what it means for Debian to be a community and changed it into an ad
hominum attack against me. It causes me to think there are some aspects of
the idea of Debian as a community that are offensive to him. From what he
actually did in this thread, I am inclined to think his idea of Debian as a community
is that it is a community of developers only, and not of users. Maybe he is right
about that. Maybe Debian *is only* a community of the one thousand or so
Debian developers with voting rights, and the rest of us are trolls if we dare to
express our opinions as mere Debian users on the debian-user list or on any
other Debian hosted forum.
So I am going to be very careful about trying to have an objective conversation
with Tomas, given what I actually saw him do in this thread, and given the mistake
I made by letting him bait me into appearing to be a troll. I will be careful
to not let that happen again.
Best regards,
Chuck
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